Urban Farming
 

I know many GIMers here will simply say: "leave the city and move to a bug out place."

But this is an interesting phenomenon I've come across on the airwaves recently.

It is called: "Urban Farming."

Does anyone have any thoughts about it?

Here is a podcast about it

http://www.onpointradio.org/2009/07/urban-farming

Any thoughts about urban farming?

Re: Urban Farming
 

I believe it's going to be the next "cool" trend.

These folks average 6,000 lbs of food a year on 3/10 of an acre:

http://www.pathtofreedom.com/

They've been at it for a while... their home is just amazing.

Right now people can't sell their homes... they can't move to more rural locations to homestead and quite frankly, many urban & suburban homes have enough yard to grow most of their own food. In the city, there's spaces on roofs, in vacant lots and even on baconies. By using container planting or small greenhouse, then adding aquaponics, small animal keeping, bee keeping (in some areas), bio-intensive and/or permaculture methods to the mix, then a whole lot of people & communities could teach themselves to have a year round garden & harvest right in their own yard or neighborhood. If Eliot Coleman can grow food year round in Maine on a fairly large scale (supplying local restaurants), then families and communities should be able to do their own with a little elbow grease and determination in more temperate locations for sure.

As the middle class gets pinched and if there are any food shortages in the next couple of years, I expect to see a LOT of people putting in at least a few fruit trees and experimenting with small gardens.

Our town sponsored a community garden this year where they rented gardening plots to people who couldn't garden in their yards or who couldn't afford or handle using a plow or tiller.

One of the groups we work with is involved in getting some sort of community garden going for next year at UGA. Part of the food will go to the Athens Food Bank and community members will be welcome to get involved. The more people involved, the bigger the project will get.

Yeah, I think Urban Homesteading and/or farming will be a growing movement over the next decade.... pun intended. :wink:

Re: Urban Farming
 

It is insulting for people to throw around the word farmer.

Farmer is the term for a proffessional who makes his living being a farmer.

If i put a bandaid on a cut i dont call myself a doctor.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Farming is distinguished from hunting and gathering. Calling it gardening may be more appropriate, but it is still farming. I collect 500 tomatoes every year from my garden, I end up giving some away. Otherwise, you have to call up the county and have them send an agricultural inspector over just to sell your food at the swap meet or to a grocer/restaurant.

Re: Urban Farming
 

* Main Entry: farm�er
* Pronunciation: \ˈf�r-mər\
* Function: noun
* Date: 14th century

1 : a person who pays a fixed sum for some privilege or source of income
2 : a person who cultivates land or crops or raises animals (as livestock or fish)
3 : yokel, bumpkin


I cultivate & grow food year round, full-time. I raise chickens. Seems to me that fits the #2 description perfectly.

Re: Urban Farming
 

I built a doghouse-guess i'm a carpenter.
I fixed a leaky faucet-guess i'm a plumber
I welded two pieces of metal-guess i'm a welder
I grow some vegtables and have a chicken-guess i'm a farmer

You people are hobbyists not farmers.

All hat and no cow-common phrase

Re: Urban Farming
 

ha ha well im a farmer either that or a pimp since i rent pollination services
as a primary income source.

Re: Urban Farming
 

I think it takes a lot more effort to be a natural farmer raising all type of produce on half an acre, than a professional farmer.

I live in the praries, there are vast canloa fields everywhere. With modern technology and monsanto, a "industrial farmer" rides his machine to irrigate, then rides his machine to plant, then rides his machine to spray, then rides his machine to harvest.

Not that there is anything wrong with it, it allows thoes farmers huge yeilds to feed more people.

MOst "hobby" farmers, lack industiral machines, and do everything by arm and back.

I can say Canola farmers "job" is sitting on a machine pressing buttons. Nothing requires great effort or skill, since most industrial farmers i've seens are grossly overwieght.

small farm families though, they spend a lot of time bent over, back to the sun.

Re: Urban Farming
 

There are different levels of all things.

You have medical skills because you at least know what bandaid IS....that doesn't make you a general practitioner....who I'm sure brain surgeons look down on as kindergarten kids.....

You have carpentry skills because you CAN build a doghouse. That doesn't necessarily make you a master carpenter that can lay out a curved staircase complete with curved rail built from scratch on site....or a cabinet builder, or so on.....

You can call me anything you want or don't want...long as it's long distance......I raise more than 1/2 of the food I eat, and working on the other half. I sell or give away excess and derive some of my income from it.

Tomato, Tomahto... so to speak.... :biggrin:

Re: Urban Farming
 

This is a philosophic problem that Plato takes up in several places, most notably in the early pages of The Republic.

You can read the pertinent section here: http://homepage.mac.com/jholbo/writi...rep1/rep5.html

That aside...

Does any one have any experience with urban farming?

Any tips?

Re: Urban Farming
 

Really? Is the best input you can offer to this subject a dissertation on how you believe you're the only professional farmer here?

You are arguing semantics that have nothing to do with the actual subject of the thread.... you're doing nothing productive here, simply disrupting what could be an interesting thread.

Re: Urban Farming
 

[QUOTE=Saoirse;1858344]This is a philosophic problem that Plato takes up in several places, most notably in the early pages of The Republic.

You can read the pertinent section here: http://homepage.mac.com/jholbo/writi...rep1/rep5.html

That aside...

Does any one have any experience with urban farming?

Any tips?[/QUOTE]


Saoirse, are you trying to get something like this started?

I can give you more info on the community garden that's being created at UGA, but it would help if you explained if there was something in particular you were looking for.....

Re: Urban Farming
 

i would recommend looking into permaculture, in short sustainable agriculture
created by a man made ecosystem of interdependant plants and animals

that man acts as caretaker of

popular example is the chicken most people would say it provides eggs
and meat maybee feathers but in a permaculture landscape

it becomes egg and meat and feather producer
also
harvester
tractor
weed controll
pest controll
fertaliser factory
recycling facility
and others but i think you get the idea when you start thinking of the
chicken in this way not only will you not need to be dependant
on grain grown elswhere and shipped to you your whole place
becomes much more productive than the average modern farm

Re: Urban Farming
 

You only need to grow/raise what you don't already have or can't get to survive...

At any rate, if you are stuck in the city, why not make THE BEST OF IT?

Re: Urban Farming
 

also if you are going to raise animals as part of your farm stick to
animals small enough that you can maintain a breeding stock
unless it is for something such as milking goat.

biggest problem i have seen with small farms is that they often produce
more of something that can not be sold or used locally but not enough
to make viable shipping to market in competition to big farms

this may change with rising fuel and food prices

Re: Urban Farming
 

I am getting guineas next year (in addition to the chickens) because guineas can be loosed in the garden while crops are growing and will not destroy plants or fruit/veggies.

Not only permaculture, but aquaponics, sheet mulching, & bio-intensive methods using companion plantings are all parts of a whole self-sustainable micro-environment.

Eliot Coleman grows crops year round at Four Season Farm in Maine. People in urban settings could well achieve the same using the heat from building exhausts that vent on their roofs along with a greenhouse.


Garden Girl TV has a myriad of good videos about growing food in an urban setting. She uses raised beds in a set size that she makes chicken tractors and other top attachments for so she can rotate crops & chickens from bed to bed.

There's so much good information out there right now.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Magpie-tell me what you do for a living?

Now with what ever it is-imagine me saying "i do a little of that to so i guess i'm that".Oh and by the way your doing it wrong because i read something.

Re: Urban Farming
 

You come across as a complete f**king prick, by the way. Since when was farming a "profession", anyway?
Let people do what they want to do, stop shoving your nose into every gardening/FARMING thread with an "As a professional farmer, I can say that..."

Re: Urban Farming
 

Permaculture-theres the stupidest thing i have ever heard.


Heh guess what guys i invented a circular object that can attach to objects to make those objects travel faster over the ground-i call it the WHEEL!!!!!!!!!

Re: Urban Farming
 

The reason i bother is to stop all the non-sence and lies that come out of people like magpies mouth.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Sad this thread went down hill so fast.

Edit: IBTL

Re: Urban Farming
 

it might have been common sense farming 100 years ago but not now

now its steralise the ground with pestaside herbacide add chemical fertaliser
add a bit more pestacide then ship it all hundreds or thousands of miles
to market

how much sense does that make?

how badly would your business be hurt by rapidly rising fuel prices?

who will be the dummy when gas hits 10 dollars a gallon and farmers cant ship their produce to market?

Re: Urban Farming
 

As the OP here, I would politely ask CANUCKFARMER to create his/her own thread dedicated to debunking the rest of us, and to stop posting in this one, so as to preserve the purpose of this thread.

Re: Urban Farming
 

I'm currently developing our farm, which btw was land farmed by by husband's G'father & Great G'father before his father farmed it, into a small organic "locally grown" market farm. Previously I managed one of the largest tropical greenhouses in the South, and when I say "managed," I mean took care of the plants.




If you believe permaculture is a joke, then you should have spent more time on your education when you were younger than you did playing with tractors.

Either join the thread as a productive contributor or leave the rest of us to discuss it intelligently. No one cares how many acres you grow wheat on or the semantics of who is or who isn't a "real" farmer.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Lies?

omg, you are a piece of work.

Thanks for ruining Saoirse's thread because you have a personal beef with me.

Re: Urban Farming
 

This is pretty fun,argueing with people who know nothing about something.


Lets play a game-plant growing game.Now i'm a proffesional so i'm not going to laugh to hard at you guys.

You all/most believe in a sustanible closed system free of fertilizers and chemicals.The symbios of animals and plants and men being the "caretakers".This is a great system because it is sustainable.Balance is acheived.

Can i assume this is a correct statement?

Please tell me your answers.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Sorry this thread went sideways-but it is important.

Re: Urban Farming
 

yes thats about it accept it is not truly a closed system as air water and sunlight are all needed its just
much less wastfull.

ill play your game but you may want to start a new thread

Re: Urban Farming
 

Here's an article on John Jeavons, one of the most important names in permaculture.

Re: Urban Farming
 

No tricks,not a trick question.
Basic agronomic principals.
No funny logistical numbers involved.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Any other ametuers want to play a few rounds with a pro.

Re: Urban Farming
 

http://www.chelseagreen.com/content/...uture-of-food/

Salatin's own website.

Re: Urban Farming
 

A better look at the Path to Freedom folks.


Urban Homestead Facts

LOCATION
Pasadena, CA
(Northwest Pasadena, one mile from downtown Pasadena)

PROPERTY SIZE
1/5 acre (66' x 132' / 8,712 sq.ft.)

GARDEN SIZE
~ 1/10 acre (3,900 sq.ft. / ~ 66' x 66')

GARDEN DIVERSITY
Over 350 different vegetables, herbs, fruits, berries

FOOD PRODUCED
6,000 lbs annually
challenging for 10,000 lbs in 2008 (read more)

URBAN HOMESTEAD SUPPORTS
4 full-time adults, volunteers, and many clients

ENERGY USAGE
6.5 kwh day (and going down!)

SOLAR POWER PRODUCED
9000 kwh ( as of 10/20/08)

GALLONS OF BIODIESEL MADE (since 2003)
1,500 gallons (as of 2/12/08)

"EARTH IMPACT FOOTPRINT"
5.2 acres per person

Re: Urban Farming
 

Ha ha. Canuck, I know "farmers" like you.

You think bigger is better, but you sit all day in an air conditioned combine with GPS and radio and think you're still farming. Kudos to you for farming thousands of acres without breaking a sweat.

You've forgotten how to read plants and soil for signs of disease and pest damage - all you know how to do is read the side of the fertilizer bag.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Being a professional farmer usually means being about one harvest from having the bank kick you off your farm. That's the sad part.

At least that's what I keep seeing on CBS America.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Answer-potassium,you eventually run out.

http://www.prairiecca.ca/members/art...mNutrition.pdf

http://www.americanheart.org/present...dentifier=4680

Re: Urban Farming
 

Funny how you brought up disease coon.

Re: Urban Farming
 

And dont play funny logistacal numbers b.s with me.

Your manure and compost dont put back what is taken out.

Re: Urban Farming
 

The Path to Freedom family, the Dervaes, were just featured in a film which, ironically, screened its debut today, called Homegrown.

Watch the Trailer for the film.


They are truly inspiring and should be a great example for anyone looking to transform a small space into productive a garden.

Re: Urban Farming
 

You aren't a farmer, Canuckfarmer - you are a factory worker. Simple as that.

Re: Urban Farming
 

That's exactly why I consider the smaller and medium-sized farms a much more valid form of farming. Today's megafarms have gotten away from understanding the land and the soil.

That will also be their downfall.

Re: Urban Farming
 

i think you just proved our point any farming practice that returns to
the soil as much potasium as possible is more sustainable and hence better.

as a major purchaser of fertaliser you are much more dependant on fuel
and petrochemicals for the production and shipment of fertalier than a farm
practising sustainable farming.

also permaculture has a much greater emphasis on long lived perenial
crops than fast annuals which you seem to concentrate on?

an example could be the oak trees that have survived on this property
for thousands of years and still have not starved of potasium.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Hmmm......

My wife worked a lot with Alan Chadwick when he was in Santa Cruz.

Meanwhile, I was a Ruth Stout fan (still am).

As a younger man I worked both family operations and larger,

"commercial" operations.

In the early eighties, teamed up with another individual

And started a neighborhood urban garden in SE Portland, Oregon

Which was a fantastic success.

So I'll put it bluntly.

If we don't get out of the oil and military-industrial complex based

Agricultural applications - including the present GMO fad -

We are truly hosed.

The present agribiz paradigm can be described as

"Monocropping GMO's using petroleum based fertilizer and pesticides,

Maintained with heavy equipment."

In that sense, it is in agribiz' best interests the reduce the

Soil to a sterile medium.

You couldn't create a more impressive carbon footprint

If you tried.

Or a more dubious product.

However, lest we forget, it is all about profit,

Not health, either our own or that of the Earth.


scyth

Re: Urban Farming
 

another idea for th OP try some unusual plants or crops for example
i am getting a good crop of black berries, prickly pear fruit and acorns this year.all of which are growing wild or semi wild i planted the blackberries on an island in the middle of the pond and the cactus i give a little extra
water to increase the flowering and fruiting.

if this farm is about survival in hard times thinking outside the box could
pay dividends.

even now cactus pads and fruits are sold in my local market probably imported from mexico
even though they are easy to grow here and the fruit is very tasty

Re: Urban Farming
 

Here's another bookmarked link I have: The Living Garden : a Bio-intensive Approach to Urban Agriculture in Ethiopia

Urban agriculture is becoming a real movement in some areas that need it the worst. Cuba is providing most of their own food this way.

I believe the most impressive thing about this new wave of farming is how empowering it is for the people who get involved. They realize they no longer have to be at the mercy of the "system." With determination and a little training, just about ANYone can grow food.

Re: Urban Farming
 

No-i own my own factory.

I can produce
2,100,000 pounds of wheat
1,200,000 pounds legumes
1,500,000 pounds oilseeds

By myself.
Take away ferts and chemicals-that number is cut in half-minimum.
Want everyone to go back to the land-what about the other jobs that need doin?

Re: Urban Farming
 

Wow... I am jealous of your wife!!

The methods I am using to develop my own land include quite a bit taken from both Chadwick & Stout's work. I'm sheet mulching bed by bed right now with over 12" of amendments in order to transform the entire garden areas for next year. I'm putting in woody & herbaceous perennials as I go to get some of the companion plants established this fall.

It's a LOT of work, but it is so great watching it come together. My swallowtail population is up as is the variety of bird species. We've introduced beneficial insects and our lady bug and praying mantis populations are way up!

Re: Urban Farming
 

There is a fabulous book called Perennial Vegetables by Eric Toensmeier that you can fin on
There are quite a few things that can be planted in all zones, some of which other people would never know can be eaten. I'm including as many as I can in my own garden as "survival food."

Re: Urban Farming
 

With some changes...

I'm building a doghouse-guess i'm carpenting.
I'm fixing a leaky faucet-guess i'm plumbing
I'm welding two pieces of metal-guess i'm welding
I'm growing some vegtables and have a chicken-guess i'm farming

This is my first summer with a real vegetable garden, and with good water the drought has been great for growing after a slow start. Reaching out and eating the berries and plums on the old trees and I'm working on the place.

I don't have time, nor see payback in nutrition or cost to preserving harvest (other than a good freezer) in the next few years. In the interest of keeping things simple and easy, perhaps a move to summer yard browsing (less time in the kitchen, and picking and preparing does not seem a chore). Agri-business to focus on processed and preserved, till needed by these urbanites the seasons their gardens are not producing.

I wonder if more greens in summer, more meat in winter will work better with evolved constitutions as well?

Re: Urban Farming
 

ultimately people may not have a choice about whether they go back to the land unless you believe oil is honestly a limitless supply?

i looked up on your potash and there are alternate sources eg my chicken
example chicken fertaliser is 1.85 % potash very high.integrating a chicken
flock which can survive on bugs and forage could be used to fertalise
and prepare your soil and bug controll.

so maybee you do not produce 2000000 pounds of wheat and have to ship them hundreds of miles maybee you only produce 1500000 pound but have eggs and meat to sell more locally?

i know you are likely to big to try something on that scale but that is the concept and it does work and the sooner you start developing sustainable farming techniques the better of you will be

how many acres can you work on your own without fuel and chemicals ?

what is your plan for energy descent do you have a plan?

or are you happy to believe that you will always have available
cheap energy and chems?

im sure what and how you do what you do is profitable but it is not
sustainable.

Re: Urban Farming
 

No, you work in your own factory, and you are just as vulnerable as anyone else if and when the crash comes.
Say tomorrow, you trip under a tractor and your leg gets mangled - who's going to manage it for you then?

Re: Urban Farming
 

Might be slightly of topic here

but

I live in the central valley of ca.(many orchards and farms).

I am impressed by the hmong farmers
they farm Many acres By Hand.

not sure if they use pesticides

I Dont really know much about them
But I see them in the fields from morning to night


http://www.immigrantfarming.org/succ...es/yeng525.jpg

Now thats real Farming

Re: Urban Farming
 

Sorry to say.....




Bull Hockey.....:36_1_30:



That and rotation of what you grow in the same plots will do fine thank you
what one takes out of the soil the other puts in...


Just saying....

IMHO



:yes:


:bear_thumb:

Re: Urban Farming
 

In the long run it will come down to who is willing to pay most for the potash (etc.), and how others learn to do without.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Chicken and other manures will do nicely thank you!!!

Especially chicken hocky that is a great Fertillizer.

• What Is Manure Worth Compared to Commercial Fertilizer?
• Manure Composition
  • Nitrogen in Manure
  • Phosphorus and Potassium in Manure
  • Micronutrients in Manure
  • Organic Matter
• Manure As a Plant Fertilizer
• Additional Links

http://pubwiki.extension.org/mediawi...o_wiki_200.jpg <center>Livestock and Poultry Environmental Learning Center:



All articles about:

Manure Value and Economics

</center>



<script type="text/javascript"> if (window.showTocToggle) { var tocShowText = "show"; var tocHideText = "hide"; showTocToggle(); } </script> What Is Manure Worth Compared to Commercial Fertilizer?

Animal manure is considered an agricultural commodity that can be utilized as a fertilizer source for pastureland, cropland and hay production. Manure is recognized as an excellent source of the plant nutrients nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P) and potassium (K). In addition, manure returns organic matter and other nutrients such as calcium, magnesium and sulfur to the soil, building soil fertility and quality.
Any financial valuation of manure would be dependent on the market value of the N, P, K, and other plant nutrients that the manure is replacing, organic matter as a soil amendment, and the nutrient needs of the crops and fields receiving the litter.
The nutrient content of manure will vary depending on animal type and diet, type and amount of bedding, manure moisture content, and storage method. For more see the Clemson University publication Averaged livestock and poultry manure characteristics.
Buyers and sellers should have a lab analysis to determine moisture and nutrient concentration of the manure. Generally speaking, liquid manures will contain a lower nutrient content than solid manures, due to the dilution effect. Assuming all nutrients are needed by the crop, higher manure nutrient content corresponds to higher manure value. Higher values help to offset transportation and handling costs.
http://pubwiki.extension.org/mediawi...d_by_truck.jpg

Manure Composition

Nitrogen in Manure

Nitrogen in manure is found in the organic and inorganic forms. The organic form (slow release) slowly mineralizes providing plant-available N, while inorganic forms (fast release) consist primarily of NH4-N and are immediately plant available. However, inorganic forms are also susceptible to loss through ammonia volatilization during storage and field application. Promptly incorporating the manure into the soil can reduce these N losses. Due to the slow release organic form and potential losses of the inorganic form, not all of the N is available to the crops during the year of application. Nitrogen that is expected to be available to the plant has value as a fertilizer. The N which is lost to the environment or which is not available to the crop in the year it is needed or subsequent years does not have value. The guide “Fertilizer Nutrients in Animal Manure” provides information on the amount of N expected to be available in the 1st year and subsequent years from various manure sources:
Phosphorus and Potassium in Manure

Phosphorus and Potassium in manure are mostly present in the inorganic form. This means that P and K are similar to commercial fertilizer in that they are readily available for plant uptake. Most nutrient management plans are based on a P-Index or P-threshold which may limit manure application on some fields. Therefore, the value of these nutrients is based on crop nutrient needs as determined by a soil test and yield goal.
Micronutrients in Manure

Other nutrients such as calcium (Ca), magnesium (Mg) and sulfur (S) may be found in manure and are beneficial to the soil if a deficiency exists. Both Ca and Mg create an added value by producing a liming effect when added to the soil.
Organic Matter

Organic matter, primarily undigested feed and bacteria in the feces, increases infiltration of water, increases water holding capacity, enhances retention of nutrients, reduces wind and water erosion and promotes the growth of beneficial organisms. Although the value of organic matter is hard to quantify, higher quality soils are associated with increased yields and higher economic returns.
Manure As a Plant Fertilizer

Because manure is not a balanced fertilizer, some plant nutrient needs may be met while other nutrients may be under- or over-supplied. Any nutrient that is undersupplied by a manure application could incur a subsequent fertilizer application cost which would, in effect, lower the net value of the manure. Any nutrient that is oversupplied by a manure application would not have immediate value because it was not needed by the crop.
Additional Links

• Oklahoma Soil Test Interpretation and Fertilizer Decision Support Program including animal manure value calculator
• Oklahoma Poultry Litter Value Calculator
• Alabama Nutrient Contents of Fertilizer Materials
• Manure Value Calculator spreadsheet by University of Minnesota

Authors: Josh B. Payne, Oklahoma State University and John Lawrence, Iowa State University
Reviewers: Ray Massey, University of Missouri and Kelsi Bracmort, NRCS
<!-- Pre-expand include size: 2276 bytes Post-expand include size: 456 bytes Template argument size: 418 bytes Maximum: 2097152 bytes -->


More information

financial crisis and farms, animal manure management, manure economics, Financial Crisis







:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Re: Urban Farming
 

Liebig lied big, read the works of Sir Albert Howard and Newman Turner to get a real perspective on actual farming the way that it should be done.

Re: Urban Farming
 

That would make a fabulous bumper sticker.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Thanks. Started...
http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm...dSH/SHtoc.html
Sir Albert Howard C.I.E., M.A. Part III The Problem of Manuring

Re: Urban Farming
 

Canuckfarmer -

How many tons of fertilizer, and how many gallons of diesel for 2008?

And how many gallons of pesticides?

I'm sure you know these figures down to a gnat's ass.

After all, it is a "factory."


scyth

Re: Urban Farming
 

Good read.

The author is a hoot..

Kind of person, if you ask him for the time, first he will build a swiss watch then tell you the time..

:coolbeer:

Re: Urban Farming
 

The bottom line is that you do not need a license to be a farmer. Grow tomatoes, find a store.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Not for much longer.

Worse, Codex Alimentarius is about 'safety' not nutrition.

Re: Urban Farming
 

155 metric tons or 341775 pounds.
4-5 thousand gallons of diesel.
Herbicides- not enough gallons worth mentioning.
Pesticides-refuse to use them-killing plants is different than killing insects,i dont let my kids use bug spray even.

Dont get me wrong,my system is less sustainable and ultimately we are screwed-thats why i'm here.
Of course peak-oil is not a concept most farmers grasp,let alone the inherint flaws of frn's.

Re: Urban Farming
 

And just because it seems like i'm attacking you people,i'm only defending what i believe as a truth-i do think its great your working towards self-sufficiency.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Your last statement rings true. There are some people who have a way with words, and can persuade thousands.













Unfortunately, you are not one of them.

Re: Urban Farming
 

good stuff...
Attachment 77153

Re: Urban Farming
 

Canuckfarmer -

We, the people, are in the process of building

Some kind of coalition here, not that we even know

What it will turn out to be.

And, yeah, you can feel it too.

As you said "That's why I'm here."

As I said, I've been on both sides of the farming fence,

And am not here to demonize you.

As for the evil of Archer Midland Daniels, absolutely.

Once again - to all -

This is about coalition.

Canuckfarmer is showing a hell of a lots of guts

And willingness to learn

Just being here.

scyth

Re: Urban Farming
 

The first apartment I lived in in Russia had a balcony set up to house chickens.

So I know it is possible to have a chicken coop in a few sqare feet and get some eggs.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Who's the "MF" (Melon Farmer) who took that picture???

Re: Urban Farming
 

The funny part about all this is we will all be in the same prison camp together argueing whether maggots have a higher protein value than crickets.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Maggots are better of course. Fewer 'middle-bugs' to skim off the fat. :bear_tongue:

Re: Urban Farming
 

That's a great line!

Re: Urban Farming
 

If that is the case, then CF might consider not calling people liars or wasting time arguing semantics about who is or who isn't qualified to call themselves a farmer. There's precious little time to discuss the important issues without wasting time arguing about BS.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Magpiefairy -

Agreed.

However, the activity of "piling on" someone

With a different ethos is equally repugnant to me.

We all learn, or don't.

Hang together, or hang alone,

To quote Mr. Patrick Henry.



scyth

Re: Urban Farming
 

I promise to act nicer if you promise to act smarter-

Magpie,if you dont want to show me the respect of letting me keep my tradesman name of farmer.....fine,four oclock mornings,tweleve oclock nights,broken bones,chemical sickness,telling the wife were broke for years because of hailstorms and drought,missing every single social event till snow flies,begging bankers for extenstions on already over extended loans,all for producing an underpriced/underappreciated product...great,you deserve the title to.

Re: Urban Farming
 

What does ANY of this have to do with the initial purpose of this thread?

Re: Urban Farming
 

Write a few papers, go to the trade shows and get a few friends to recommend you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_agrologist

Re: Urban Farming
 

As a matter of their own survival, some folks might want to learn how to not to make themselves targets of "piling on."


You are correct, however, as was Mr. Henry.... and all those hippies in the video. :biggrin::ok:

Which brings me to another point. CF asked what about the other jobs that need to be done and who will do them if everyone gets "back to the land?"

Well, some of us will work harder and grow enough to share, sell or barter with our doctors and dentists and the bakers and candlestick makers. There will ALWAYS be those who choose specialty jobs and that, my friends, is what make a village or a community.

No man is an island and no matter how self-sufficient we are individually, we can never be as self-sufficient on our own as a group can be where there are different people doing different jobs.

The times they are a-changin' and we can either change with it or die trying to maintain something that can't sustain itself. Our currant system cannot continue to sustain itself the way it's going. I have no intention of arguing the protein content of maggots vs crickets in some FEMA camp somewhere, so I'm busy learning and teaching what I learn about a sustainable way of living in hopes that it never gets to that.

:9536:

Re: Urban Farming
 

No one used the title "farmer" with the intent of disrespect to you. YOU made this personal. YOU made your choices to farm the way you do.

That does not have anything to do with other people being farmers or how they choose to farm. The title "farmer" does not come with quantitative measurements for only those who can work a megafarm and produce 2 million lbs plus of a mono-crop. Your definition is narrow and of your own contrivance.

I'm all for discussing any farming method you want as long as you can try to realize there isn't just one way to do anything. We all learn something from even the most unlikely sources sometimes.

Re: Urban Farming
 

That's from my backyard.

Re: Urban Farming
 

All -

"No man is an island, entire of itself
every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main
if a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were,
as well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were
any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind
and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls
it tolls for thee."


-- John Donne


Canuckfarmer -

Get a clue. We all bust our butts. We all are on the thin edge of nowhere

In terms of survival.

Doesn't matter if we are city mice or country mice.

I'm asking you to listen and not preach.

You have admitted that your way of life is not sustainable.

This entire board has admitted that our present way of life is not

Sustainable.

So, we are all students

Of a totally unpredictable future.

So - and I am not a moderator here -

Stop whining and get on with possible solutions.

Like no till dryland wheat in Eastern Washington, for example.

scyth

Re: Urban Farming
 

No-you made this personal.

99% of the food produced comes from FARMERS-not backyard,chicken,garden producing hacks,who only contribute a filthy fraction of what is needed to keep a society up and running.Are busness is farming and thats what we do-give you the cheapeast easiest nutritution ever in the history of the world.

You tree thumping,global warming environmentilist should step aside and let the adults take care of things-dont you dare lump global finance into this-there is a mathematical principle of food production and distribution i doubt many women can comprehend.

Let us do are jobs-and you do yours-you still havent told me what that is.Did you even here of the word potassium before today?Look up salt while your at it.

The problems that face society today will not be solved by weak minded people,take an i.q test and take a seat at the back of the bus-you are apart of the problem.

Re: Urban Farming
 

I recently planted 10 fruit trees along the side of our yard...and some vegetables.

Im trying to find some more area here to plant more stuff...the backyard landscaping is really nice but not sure if I want to tear it out yet...hmm...

Re: Urban Farming
 

oh bugger ive nevr done this before

but IBTL

thanks scyth for the mediation

Re: Urban Farming
 

Canuckfarmer -

"No-you made this personal."

Untrue. You are apparently on a mechanized mass-farming vendetta. I

Offered you

The option of peaceful discussion of options. Not only did you refuse,

But you have decided to shit all over those who would

Try to have a discussion.

"99% of the food produced comes from FARMERS-not backyard,chicken,garden producing hacks,who only contribute a filthy fraction of what is needed to keep a society up and running.Are busness is farming and thats what we do-give you the cheapeast easiest nutritution ever in the history of the world."

Tell that to the third world. You are obviously well esconced within

The first world of American agribiz.

Archer Midland Daniels, anyone?


"You tree thumping,global warming environmentilist should step aside and let the adults take care of things-dont you dare lump global finance into this-there is a mathematical principle of food production and distribution i doubt many women can comprehend."

Women? You lost me there, bubba. Your version of "adults" is the driving

Force behind exactly how ****ed we are now and into the foreseeable

Future.

In other words, my son, his wife, and my first grandchild.


"Let us do are jobs-and you do yours-you still havent told me what that is.Did you even here of the word potassium before today?Look up salt while your at it."


About 50 years ago, when I was eight years old. Is this a problem?


"The problems that face society today will not be solved by weak minded people,take an i.q test and take a seat at the back of the bus-you are apart of the problem."


The Earth is driving that bus. The worldwide military industrial complex seem absolutely comitted to driving that bus over the cliff. We are, to the best of our abilities, keeping the world bus from going over the cliff. You just haven't caught up with that fact.

I am glad you finally came forth with your real opinions, but


I cannot support them.


I suggest you take a real serious second look at your version


Of farming, and how it relates to the health and continuity


Of what we know and love as our Earth.


scyth

Re: Urban Farming
 

I wouldn't be telling others to take an IQ test if I couldn't spell, but that's just me.

Other people in this thread have given you an "out" and told you that we are willing to discuss farming in a civil manner. We've posted links and information from recognized experts in the field of sustainable farming and yet.... you continue to hurl insult after insult while doing your darnedest to make sure this discussion will never bear fruit. At the same time you haven't contributed a solitary scrap of usable information to this subject or anything that states why your way is better. In fact, you are contradicting yourself here because you have already admitted that your way is NOT sustainable.

You want people who have been using a PROVEN SUSTAINABLE way of farming to shut up and get out of your way? Sorry, but your demands are absolutely ridiculous.

I *did* reply to you about my livelihood and yes, I *do* know what potassium is.

Women in many other cultures traditionally were the ones who have done most of the farming while the men either hunted or sat on their azz. If you had taken the time to get to know the world you live in a little better, you would know this.

Go away. You were given a chance to join in and be a part of the discussion, but you are incapable of laying down your hostilities in order to do so. It's become apparent that the only reason you are here is to derail this thread.

Re: Urban Farming
 

The jap beetles are horrible here, they love the grape, rubarb, and cherry leaves. If I could recommend an easy fruit to grow it would be pears (at least around here) they tolerate wet feet better and don't have many disease or pest problems.

There is a good publication called "the grass farmer" google it if you're interested in grazing animals.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Personally, I find the above quite insulting.

I think the farmer of the future is going to be a LOT smaller, WAY more local and using many of the methods of the past. The folks trying it now are simply the forerunners of what is to come when diesel fuel is 20 bucks/gal and factory farms no longer are economically sustainable.

And please report back when diesel fuel IS 20 bucks/gallon......and remember, the higher the horse, the farther the fall.


Edit: and now added you to "ignore"....you've gone off the deep end with this rant, and you have the distinction of being only the second person I've ever put on ignore ( From India is the other )

Re: Urban Farming
 

Have you tried inoculating your yard with milky spore?? I just got a batch and will be doing mine this week. I'll have to wait until next year to see the results, but I've heard that it is an amazing difference.

Re: Urban Farming
 

The problem with milky spore is it takes a WIDE area and lot of spore to make it effective. When the beetle first came thru this area in the 70's so bad, the local USDA extension ordered barrels of the stuff and sold it at cost......that put a real crimp in the beetle and we basically have had little problem with it since.

It's a one time application, as the spore then stays in the ground, reproduces itself as it kill the beetle in the grub stage.....but if you're the only one putting it out, don't expect too much from it, since the beetle will fly in off neighboring, untreated property for a long time until what you put out finally spreads that way.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Thanks for that info, Andy. I ordered enough to do most of the 7 acres here. They are not a huge problem, but they do get the berries, grapes and a lot of ornamentals.

I have a very sweet situation hereon one side is a little family from the Ukraine who are raising chickens and ducks & working to cut down on their bugs, too. Then there is a grove of pines between us and the church on the other side, pines across the street & behind us is an empty pasture. We have a little hollow spot here that dips into a low spot in the middle of the property where most of the garden resides. IOW, when I treat for pests here, I get some, but not a lot of influx from outside areas afterward. That's why I'm working so hard to convert this to a permaculture project - it's just a great spot for it.

I'll be keeping notes to see if it helps. I should have done population estimates this year, but I didn't have time to set up traps. Oh, well... :biggrin:

Re: Urban Farming
 

Here's an interesting site:

http://urbanhomestead.org/journal/

Little Homestead in the City

Re: Urban Farming
 

YOU ARE NOT FARMER DAMMIT DID YOU SAY YOU GREW SOMETIN?
*someone points out that you can live organic on 1/10 of an acre*
*Head explodes*.

Re: Urban Farming
 

HA HA HA-told you i wouldnt laugh to much.

Even the great tn and a produces half of what he needs while i feed 10,000 people.

But you all tell me how it works.

I got a shiny 65 nickel that your a secratary or a grade one teacher magpie.

Syth-i appreciate the outs but i refuse to bow to stupidity-it must be challenged with extreme prejudice.

Have fun figuring on how to feed the last half of yourselfs,i will easily feed another 2500 souls next year on this big planet that losses 10,000 a day.

But -your the farmers,the salt of the earth.
Me-i'm the epitamy of what your forefathers were failures at-farming


TRUTH HURTS EH?

Re: Urban Farming
 

Ha ha. Canuck you're a joke. You feed the world but you can't feed yourself. How much of your own crops do you personally eat? I bet it's none- because the "food" you grow is inedible until it's processed in a factory somewhere.

I'm living and working on a farm that produces 90% of the food we eat (minus things like salt and oil) plus we sell organic sorghum syrup and honey. I'm waiting for the ground to dry up so I can plant cover crop out in the wheat fields we just harvested...not that you know anything about cover cropping.

I'll ask again - how much of your own food do you grow?

Re: Urban Farming
 

Bye the way,winning a debate is like sticking a pig.

It walks around for a while grunting like nothings wrong,then it just shuts up and dies.

But maybe only a farmer would know that.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Eating local produce, meat called vital Fri, August 7, 2009
http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Loc...86926-sun.html

Re: Urban Farming
 

Canuckfarmer -

"Bye the way,winning a debate is like sticking a pig.

It walks around for a while grunting like nothings wrong,then it just shuts up and dies.

But maybe only a farmer would know that.


Just like your personal version of "farming."


But only the commodities brokers would know that.

And, by the way,

Here, you are done and finished.


scyth

Re: Urban Farming
 

Funny enough-i was looking at our old scythe tools in the barn the other day and i thought to myself"man i'm glad i'm not a small boned underdeveloped city kid in case i have to swing this thing all day,some day".

Is that ironic or just plain funny?

Re: Urban Farming
 

sorry mate you aint going to feed many when the electricity is out and
the fuel no longer flows.

FACT

that is where sustainable ag comes in that is where farming in your back yard
comes in. and that is what this thread is supposed to be about.

im a little insulted that you did not seem to answer any of my queries
or answers to your game?
but would rather argue with MF over BS inapplicable to this thread

and how many work to feed you and your farming machine?

miners,engineers,truckers mechanics,polaticians chemists factory workers etc etc

what can you produce without them that is the question?

Re: Urban Farming
 

Sorry Damoc for not addressing earlier.

My fight was with the way the term farmer was flipitantly thrown around.

Something that many lost sight of.No appology

And for a second time i'm sorry the thread was hijacked.

Your right when the end game comes-i'm done,thats why im here to.

And trust me i have way more to give than to get.

Re: Urban Farming
 

there is nothing in a name you should feel happy that somebody wishes
to call themselves a farmer.im a beekeeper and run about 1000 colonies
and that is small comapred to most US beekeepers i have lots of other people who only run 1 or 2 colonies i am flattered that they want to call themselves beekeepers and pick my brain a little but we are all beekeepers and i
think beekeepers are also farmers especially since i plant many plants and crops especially for my bees and chickens and rabbits.


part time employment does not make one less of a farmer or perhaps
you could take on the term idustrial agriculturalist if that makes you feel
bigger,better and more important than the rest of us?

or perhaps i could phrase it like this what can you help us hobby farmers
with?

and honestly i think the future of farming will develop from a "hobby farmer" much like modern beekeeping
developed from a hobby beekeeper do a search for langstroth (i think i spelled that right) if it interests you

Re: Urban Farming
 

Actions speak louder than words.

If you are really sorry (two times over, supposedly), then STOP POSTING in this thread.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Cotten seed gin compost from a nearby gin has been the best and latest addition to my small farm.
garden- about 40 x 60.
raised beds- 3, 8x12

I will begin construction on new hoop-house for winter veggies in a few days.

Still getting cantelop and melons and okra...uummmm!
and peppers and peas and a few strawberries.

BONUS TIP.
Last year i fertiized my 2 plum trees. WOW! what a difference.
Picked over 5 5gal buckets full.
Since then I have fertiized all trees planted in last few years which is something i have never done.
The best way is to drive an old shovel handle or whatever about1 18" into ground around dripline of tree then pour in 131313.

Re: Urban Farming
 

No one here has disputed the tonnage of crops you claim to have grown or how many people you feed, though in reality, the people you claim to feed aren't eating just wheat, oil and soybeans.

No one has questioned your status as "farmer." In fact, what we're discussing IS a form of farming by every definition; it's just different than what you do. That doesn't mean there is anything intrinsically wrong with your methods or opposed to you personally... it's just what we are doing and what others are doing to make sure we aren't left hungry when or if big agriculture fails.

You know what CF? We've answered your questions, how about you answer some of ours?

Did you grow your own personal garden in addition to your mono-crops to sell?

Do you preserve your own foods?

How much do you purchase from the local grocery to feed your family?

You know what I grew this year? Let me get you a list:

corn - 2 types, field and sweet
beans - 4 types, 2 varieties of snap, butter beans, yellow wax
broccoli
cauliflower
brussel's sprouts
cabbage - green and purple
strawberries
blackberries
blueberries
raspberries
apples - 3 varieties and 2 more planted that aren't producing yet
plums - 3 varieties
cherries - 3 varieties
pears - 3 varieties
figs - 2 varieties
chard
lettuce - 3 varieties
okra - 2 varieties
squash - 7 different varieties
onions - 3 different varieties
peppers - 5 diferent bell, jalapeno, cayenne, hot & mild banana, cowhorn, and 3 or 4 others
asparagus
radishes - 2 different varieties
cucumber - 5 different varieties
tomatoes - over 300 heirloom plants of at least 5 different varieties
parsley
dill
marjoram
basil
eggplant - 3 different varieties
garlic chives and regular chives
lemon balm
mint - 4 different varieties
sage - 3 different varieties
cilantro
savory
thyme - 3 different varieties
rosemary
watermelon - 3 different varieties
tigger melon
cantaloupe
mustard - 2 different varieties
broccoli raab
kale - 2 different varieties
grapes & muscodines
pecans
peaches
carrots
rhubarb
and I'm absolutely sure I'm forgetting a few....

we are getting ready to do our fall planting wich will include

turnips
mustard
collard greens
spinach
broccoli
cauliflower
brussel's sprouts
cabbage
lettuce

We also have a selection of medicinal herbs and plants and plants that grow wild that we "forage" each year like cress and lamb's quarters and poke.

We're adding almonds, seedless grapes, elderberries, more asparagus and kiwis this fall in addition to propagating more berry plants from the existing ones we have. I'll be ading even more varieties of veggies next year and into the years beyond.

I also can and dry much of our harvest. What I can't can or we can't eat, we donate to the food bank or give away to others who cannot farm themselves.

My FIL ran a slaughterhouse for 35 years and we slaughter deer, hogs and beef each year for meat. We now have chickens for eggs and meat. I will soon have goats for milk & bees for honey and their ability to pollinate.

*I* do all of this. Myself. This is what I do FULL TIME.

Now, tell me I am not farming.

This thread and this section of this web site is about being PREPARED and CAPABLE and SELF SUSTAINING, not about growing 2 thousand acres of wheat for sale.

BTW, my husband is an artist who donates a certain percentage of his work each year to an organization that sells art or trades it for canned goods to supply food banks all over this nation and in other countries as they are able. We do that without expecting ANY monetary return on our donation. We have collected several tons of food this year to help feed the needy... FOR FREE.

In reality, you should be praising the people here who work hard to be self-reliant. Why you feel the need to argue over a stupid job title and belittle those who have taken the effort to do for themselves is just quite beyond me.

Now, if you want to discuss permaculture or the methods attached to it, please, step on up to the plate. If you want to bellygrub about how you get no respect for what you do, then look at yourself and ask WHY people are not responding to you in a more positive manner. The answer lies within yourself.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Bigger Farms=Bigger Bills getting too big for a mere human to handle without loseing his cool. Damn glad myself that I am not in my cousin's shoes who still has the family farm. Life shortenned by the $ worries and the chemicals they have to handle. These people[farmers]are the most under attack by the current system, the illuminate just hates them. POT and the other potash producers have them by the short hairs too, having tripled their price and have not backed off much in the current economic downturn. You can do without potash fertilizer for one year, but not for two. Feel for you man.


Me? I did without my usuall half bag of 19-19-19 this year when it more than doubled in price. Went with the old indian method of hills and buckets of mud pulled up from the bottom of the creek. Glad I haven't got more than the 80'x35' garden I try to grow. That itself is scores and scores of buckets of mud to pull up and dump.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Its called gardening,my dear.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Let us not be too cute.

Its called living, and we all have to manage it.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Wow. I never realized before how destructive and angry Canuckfarmer is but a review of his posts quickly confirms it.

_______________
Silver Lake Farms launches free urban gardening workshops
Aug 7 2009

Re: Urban Farming
 

Geez, Canuk farmer, you sit astride just about the highest horse I've ever seen!

My wife's family grows about half the food we eat, and they garden only on the weekends.

There is a whole movement here in Russia where people feed themselves entirely from two acres. Check out the 'Ring of Cedars' movemnet, where families have kin-estates which are like eco-villages.

It's possible, and I can't for the life of me see why you have such a bad attitude towards people trying to learn about this.

Re: Urban Farming
 

OPPS, the picture of the ecobabe didn't come through


But, just look at the looong fingernails on that phoney bitch.




Forgot to mention it last night but it is part of the NWO's agenda[Agenda 21]to paint a rosy rosy rosy false picture on what really can be done with "urban farming". I remember now the commune called I think 'Findhome' in Scotland that they were pushing back in the 70s and 80s and all the huge crops they were claiming to get off wasteland with composted seaweed and crystals, hahahahahahahaha. People, you are being hosed, if you believe all the claims of these NWO slick propaganda artists.

Don't want to belittle what can be done on small plots with good ground. Know that some of you are doing it, but I understand CANUCKFARMER's fustration when he feels in his bones that something just isn't right and a lot of innocent/nieve/dingy/foolish people are following a piper.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Growing Soil for Urban Farming

I'd like to refocus this thread and start by asking about growing soil for urban farming.

If anyone has any experience with this particular task, please let us know.

I'd especially be interested in knowing the basics like:

1. start up costs per square foot.

2. materials required.

3. how long does it take.

4. any extras of which one should be aware.

Thanks!

Re: Urban Farming
 

Good-job you found an old post out of hundreds.
Lots of spare time kkeeah?
I dont regret writing that-that was against people who were against kids for christ sakes.

Dont worry i will not be bothering you people anymore.

But in parting i dare you all to go to a small mid western town bar- on a rainy saturday afternoon in the summertime.Find the table full of guys with johndeere hats and pull up a chair.
Then tell them what you do for a living and how you do some farming on the side in the backyard and how your pretty much just like them.Then give them some more agronomic advice on how things should be done.

Dont worry-at this point the bartender will have already called the ambulance which will have the morphine you will need.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Growing Soil for Urban Farming

I'd like to refocus this thread and start by asking about growing soil for urban farming.

If anyone has any experience with this particular task, please let us know.

I'd especially be interested in knowing the basics like:

1. start up costs per square foot.

2. materials required.

3. how long does it take.

4. any extras of which one should be aware.

Thanks!

Re: Urban Farming
 

The Mayans dug ditches and each year pulled the accumulated waterweeds and mud up on the berms to grow their crops on. That system is what I do because of the location of the only spot I can put a garden on on my land. This material can be had for free with a little looking. Find black gooy stuff with no industry upstream.

Re: Urban Farming
 

I for one will thank you for all you do and your input here CANUCKFARMER. No pesticides and just a few gallons of herbicide on I'm guessing 3-4 sections of land!!! That's just awesome and sure would like to know how you do that!

Re: Urban Farming
 

Give us some details!

Re: Urban Farming
 

No, it was in the first page of your posts. Along with other posts like:
And to your credit many posts about how many of the prairie's industrial farmers are going broke or being boken.

My first two years of work were summers at what is now industrial pork breeding operation in Manitoba.

http://manitobapork.com/hard_time_for_hog_farmers.aspx
WashPost: Apocalypse Later? I'm Going Local Now. Sunday, August 9, 2009

Re: Urban Farming
 

5 sections-3200 acres

Indusrtial herbiceds come in a very concentrated form,then mixed with large volumes of water.
For example-1 liter or .25gallons of round up would be mixed with 10 gallons of water to kill every plant(minus roundup tolerant gmoplants)on one acre of land.One acre is 8.25 feet up a mile.To give you an idea of scale.Other herbicides are a little more or little less.

3 to 4 passes per year depending on how things are going-aka-disease,bugs,weeds.-this is ball park numbers.

Not that anybody maybe interested in this.

As far as pork producers they are living in hell right now.
The sow heard is taking a nose dive-i would expect major price increases at some point.Cattle are hurting to.

Magpie your right to choose goats,canada(probably all north america)imports sheep and goats for slaughter if you can believe that(i think this is a fact-it should be double checked)and there is a shortage of goats milk due to allergies in kids-thankyou vaccines.
I believe the boer breed is still king of the species.I would also stick to papered purebreeds breeding stock can become INCREDIBLY valueable overnight.You would also want to look into third party age verification and all that type of paper.The laws conserning country of origin and age verification are becoming increasingly painful to farmers,it is useally to late to accomplish any of this after some unpredicatable crisis hits. example-bse
DO not cheapout on fencing-they are escape artist and make sure you give them something to climb on.

Are you certified organic?

In our country it takes 3 years,make sure you go with a reputable certifer.Some are fly by night.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Magpiefairy -

When we fired up the community garden in SE Portland, it

Was pretty much a seat of the pants, wing and a prayer operation.

The city authorized the land, and that was about it.

Somehow we ended up deciding that a 12' x 20' plot

Was good enough for most people.

If you wanted more, you could double up,

But not more than that.

Everybody brought their own compost;

It was like a compost conspiracy.

We had everything from longhaired space cadets

To bluehaired welldressed retired ladies and

SE Asians and black folk.

A whole bunch of kids, too, which was great.

Anyway, when the whole shitaree really started producing,

Then a lot of trading/giving started going on, along

With recipes and shared gardening knowledge.

It really had its own community momentum, steered itself,

Took care of itself.

So I can't give you a dollar per square foot figure.

The people did it all.

scyth

Re: Urban Farming
 

Awesome thread.

Anyone happen to know any affordable ( cheap ) farm land in southern florida or a site that posts them. The ones on Landandfarm.com are pricey.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Are you interested in some Everglades swamp land???

Re: Urban Farming
 

Here you go: http://unitedcountry.com/

Re: Urban Farming
 

In southern Florida you will have a problem with fresh water over the long-term.

As the population grows and they suck the water table more and more, sea water is intruding.

The whole state will be brackish in the future, so you won't be able to count on any fresh water for irrigation or drinking.

That will be important in the future.

Go to the thumb of Michigan, look there. richest farmlands in the country, surrounded by the greatest reserve of fresh water in the US.

Re: Urban Farming
 

I would "follow the Amish" if I wanted cheap good farmland as they have the "old knowledge" as to what lands will produce without modern methods.

Re: Urban Farming
 

that implies that the 'farmers' who drive the big harvesters & buy all Monsanto seeds & pesticides are more farmers than the person with a half acre who actually knows soil science.

who's a better farmer ? -
1/ a farmer who's dependent on agribiz petrochemical based fertilizer, or
2/ a farmer who knows hot-composting & other soil science processes so they can take other people's discards (yard waste, manure) and turn that into fertilizer - but since this is a lot of work, only works one half acre.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Thanks for the replies. I was looking in south florida cause I live in south florida. But land is so pricey here even 30 miles out from urban areas. I'm in my mid 20's so I don't have that much of a nest egg to invest in land hence the cheap land. I was looking into land so I could be a producer I do not want to work in service anymore. As for michagan I know people from there and every time I speak to them every few months or so they tell me about more cancer deaths. How they lost this friend that relative. But that might have more to do with where they are from (Flint). As for the amish I here some of them migrate here for the winter and set up shop for a few months.

Re: Urban Farming
 

I think that the USA health costs could be cut by 25% if everybody had a teaspoon full of Cod Liver Oil a day. Very cloudy here in Michigan for much of the year and hense little natural vitamin D production from sunlight exposure for a population that watches too much TV and uses too much sunscreen: like the TV tells them to. Interesting that some amish travel to Florida to part time farm there. huummmmm

Re: Urban Farming
 

Depends on who is asking, do you live in the city and depend on your needs from the outside or do you already provide for yourself? Without farmer #1 most people currently alive would die, without farmer #2 humans would cease to exist much longer in the future.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Again-i feed ten thousand people.
I have post secondary soil science classes.
I understand how it works.

The funniest thing from my grandaddy's way of cultivate and hope was the expression on his face of him digging in my fields and seeing earthworms for the very first time.True story.I hope my sons show me a better way.(non of you can/will/)

Us farmers are not brain-dead,corprate whores looking to make an easy buck.We are ALL links in a family chain that goes back hundreds of years,completely tied to mother nature,always-i'm the richest/poorest man here because i will pass down my TRADE/ASSETS to my children-just like before me.

My grandaddy sleeps in the exact same spot he was born.-Think about that-when you want to educate me about FARMING.

Re: Urban Farming
 

And you can all go pound sand about your gardens and chickens and o my lordy "he has a pig"-those are standard opperational procedures on a farm.

All the survival info here on the great GIM without a mention of a beef ring.

Good luck nubs.

Re: Urban Farming
 

You have earthworms? yu da man CANUCKFARMER! The complete lack of crawlers in the corn fields after they started useing Roundup around here was the first thing that peed me off about Monsanto back in the late 70s.



Mind me asking your thoughts on biodiesel seeing that you grow the oil seeds? Have been looking at those little production units they have in Northern Hydralics. Where is it worth investing in those, in respect to the price of diesel?

Re: Urban Farming
 

What's a beef ring? Don't think I've heard of that before.

Is that like a moo you can get on your cell phone when it rings?

Re: Urban Farming
 

Bio-diesel.Long term survival,probably the best.
Morally,horrible,in a perfect world.

I'm more an algae man my self.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Beef ring dont worry some genius survialist has access to googgle.

Re: Urban Farming
 

canuckfarmer -

And by the way, all, this download is not for the fainthearted........

"Beef rings were discovered in circa 3850 BC by Lugal-Zage-Si, the priest-king of Umma, Sumeria. The use of livestock as sex slaves was a priveledge permitted only to the ruling and priestly classes. As such, no scribes actually witnessed the use of beef rings, and they could not write of what they did not know. Tales of such abandonment to pleasure were passed down orally by generations of Hebrew spies. This is why Sumerians are ridiculed so harshly in the Old Testament.
Because Hellenic Ring Cults were illegal and secretive, no written records were kept of beef ring usage by the Greeks. The first references to beef rings were written by Gaius Cornelius Taciturnus (c. 56�c. - 117) in his major works�the Anals and the Histories. It was known at the time that the Greeks had a long tradition of using sheep as surrogate sex partners. In the Anals, Taciturnus writes of curcuitus bovine anus, or beef rings, being used in mandatory religious celebrations of Phallus cults, which fixated on ridiculously well-endowed men as early as 1066 BC. Emperor Domitian in 96 AD. had Taciturnus torn apart by elves, his sphincter preserved as a symbol to all who would believe Greeks had larger penises than Romans."


This what you mean, bro?

I only include this as counterpoint to your severely

Uneducated and massively opinionated

Hysteria about the supposed stupidity

Of those who are not into total, mechanized, large scale farming.

Furthermore, I imagine that you sell your crops to a co-op

Or combine, who are all agents of the "free market"

Dominated by agribiz and commodity traders, not

To people in your own town.

And I'll bet you watch the commodity market like a hawk.


Small is good.


scyth

Re: Urban Farming
 

I dimmly remember somewhere in my cloudy past either thinking seeing or dreaming of raised beds that had been made from old tires that had been somehow pulled inside out. All this talk of rings musta got me museing on it again. Think I will get a knife some chains and my old toy 4x4 and see what happens when I try to pull some of those old bald 15"ers over on the hill, inside out. Would be a good project.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Before there was refridgeration a group of farmers would go together and butcher one steer a week so everybody had fresh meat.Everybody took a turn providing an animal.

aka-beef ring

-not some wierdo sh@t that happened thousands of years ago-a few short decades ago

Re: Urban Farming
 

Hoot I just cut one of the beads out on one side then clamp the edge of it in a vise. Bend it over and work it inside out a little at a time. It's easy once you get the hang of it. Car tires are easy but the bigger the tires get the more difficult they are. The larger ones need a different method.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Cannuckfarmer I'm not college educated like you but I have learned a lot from the people here on GIM. I make my living with cattle and horses and I'm proud of the people here who are learning to grow their food and feed themselves. The more of them the better.

There are too few farmers and ranchers or people with an interest in growing their own food. The more people we have on our side the better the chance we all have fighting what the government and corporations have in mind for us. That I believe is enslaving people in cities where they lose the knowledge and ability to feed themselves. I've worked for a couple of corporations and all I had time to do was work, eat and sleep.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Well congratulations, CF. You've allowed your arrogance and ego to completely shut down and redirect a discussion that has nothing to do with what you're talking about or how you farm.


btw, some of us are smart enough to raise small farm animals so we won't have to worry about getting together a "beef ring" or having refrigeration. In fact, that WAS what this thread was about in a sense..... scaling back in order to be more productive.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Canuckfarmer has been on my ignore list for a few months. No point arguing with ignorance.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Time, Aug. 17, 2009: Urban Animal Husbandry

Re: Urban Farming
 

Isn't beef ring a euphemism for anus?

Re: Urban Farming
 

No that's lips and aholes, a euphemism for a hot dog.

Re: Urban Farming
 

I always liked a-holes and eyeballs...


srota rolls off the tongue.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Funny how i'm argueing with city people about food production.
And funny how i'm on your ignore list.

Makes me wonder about people who cant stand a debate.
Maybe deep down they know their wrong/infereior?

Whats potassium again?
Decades of agricuktural knowledge and i'm dismiised?
And you guys think the slaughter weight of a hog is 300 pounds?
That would be a funny thing to see you city slickers showing up at a slaughter house with 300 pound pigs.
Everbody laughing at you wondering what cousin had married what cousin!

And speaking of pigs when its time to take the inscirrors out you will need good plyers and good ear plugs-those things can scream as you snap them little teeth out.

And are you useing jacknife or rings when castrating calves?

Are you cutting horns or using the acid?

Check your hay for foxtail?

Farming is so easy-i dont know why everbody got out of it?

Re: Urban Farming
 

I've never lived in a city. Single family farms were never 1000s of plowed acres before the latter part of the past century. There's lots of small family farms here in the rural South.

You were dismissed because you wanted to argue over a job title and talk about farming methods that had nothing to do with the subject of this thread while insulting the rest of the people trying to discuss the topic.

You have a serious problem if you have to keep telling other people they are inferior. This certainly isn't the first thread you've done it in and I'm certain it won't be the last.

Your brand of agricultural knowledge has its place, but it's not what this thread is about. Again, if you wanted to talk about growing crops in urban settings or permaculture, then jump on in. Oh, you can't. Why? Because you obviously don't know jack about either.

I've always had a healthy amount of respect for farmers and ranchers. The ones I have had the pleasure of spending any time with were always gracious and educated. They were happy to talk farming and crops with single family farm owners like myself and others who aren't growing on a large scale, but still are farming nonetheless. I've never encountered a completely uneducated troll who talked down to others quite like this before.

Hopefully, you'll get yourself banned before the next farming/gardening topic comes up so the rest of us can discuss it like adults without the interruptions.

You're on my ignore list now, too. First person ever.

Re: Urban Farming
 

First of all, spelling.



Now, next;

I don't have a problem with small farming.

And you haven't answered any of my questions from

My previous post.............


So, bro, continue to sit on the limb

And saw it in half on the inward side.

Can't figure that particular motivation...........



scyth

Re: Urban Farming
 

So you are saying ALL farmers are assholes, not just you? Bigoted, IMO.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Been there when it is done to the baby pigs; still have the entire scene burned into my mind in color, stero, and odorvision. Musta been 4 or 5.

Re: Urban Farming
 

In all the confusion i cant remember if i fired five shots or six.

Thank you for correcting me on spelling.

Your welcome for me telling you a what real farming is really about.

I cant find those questions i missed.

Re: Urban Farming
 

These, Canuck

"This what you mean, bro?

I only include this as counterpoint to your severely

Uneducated and massively opinionated

Hysteria about the supposed stupidity

Of those who are not into total, mechanized, large scale farming.

Furthermore, I imagine that you sell your crops to a co-op

Or combine, who are all agents of the "free market"

Dominated by agribiz and commodity traders, not

To people in your own town.

And I'll bet you watch the commodity market like a hawk.


Small is good."


scyth

Re: Urban Farming
 

Hi Magpie, your comment in my CSA tread tipped me off to this comment, which I seemed to have missed!

I appreciate tremendously your interest in this thread and your willingness to help.

OK, so here are some details to consider:

My project is evolving, both in my mind and in my wallet, at this point.

I think I want to start out very small, maybe with just a few buckets filled with soil over the next few months and see what can be done. Is this possible? What type of foods can be grown starting from scratch in the Fall / Winter?

Should I try to do some seedlings inside in the meantime to plan in the Spring? If so, what do you recommend and how should I go about it?

I do not have access to a plot of dirt. Everything at this point must be done in buckets / containers. And there isn't much room to work with at all. A few square feet here, a few square feet there. Fortunately, all of the space available has plentiful sunlight exposure.

So that's the basic starting point.

Thanks!

Re: Urban Farming
 

had corn, string beans,potatoes last nite with dinner. fresh and tasty. no trip to safeway, just go to back yard. my 2 1/2 year old daughter helps with planting,weeding,harvesting. more fun than a lawn. winter crops going in , kale,lettuce,spinach. the flowers have helped the local honeybees. expanding the beds again this year. seeds saved for next years crops. tomato plants do well in buckets, parsley and herbs also.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Canuckfarmer is like Walmart mass produced cheap shit. Screw over anyone for the bottom line.

Ok thats the last bash from me I don't want to become like canuck or anything.

By the way "The encyclopedia of Country living" is an awesome book must have for anyone interested in farmer.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Plumber does the plumbing.
Elctrician does the electricing.
Lumberjack does the lumbering.
Farmer does the farming.

Some guys do a little of each.
But they should never call themselves one or the other,unless its there sole responsibility.


How many times do i have to repeat myself?

And i'm the ass reminding people what there not?

You feed yourself and i feed ... and you can call yourself the same PROFFESION as me?

Your a good damn bunch of wanna bees.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Once again, spelling.

"Plumber does the plumbing.
Elctrician (electrician) does the electricing (electrical).
Lumberjack does the lumbering.
Farmer does the farming.

Some guys do a little of each.
But they should never call themselves one or the other,unless its there (their) sole responsibility.


How many times do i have to repeat myself?

And i'm the ass reminding people what there (they're) not?

You feed yourself and i feed ... and you can call yourself the same PROFFESION (profession) as me?

Your (you're) a good (I'll leave that one alone) damn bunch of wanna bees (wannabes)."


Now, as I understand it your definition of farming

Is using heavy fossil fuel fired equipment

Combined with massive applications of petrochemically

Derived fertilizer to hybrid, if not GMO seeds,

With the intent that you can stay ahead of the commodities market.

One word says it all. Profit.

I'll take a person with a single 4' x 8' patch of hand built

Soil in their backyard, planted with non-hybrid seeds,

Tended and harvested carefully, as more of a farmer

Than you will ever be, any day.

A history lesson: read up on the Communist Russian

Agricultural communes, and the "garden plots" which

Were allotted to the workers.

The "garden plots" fed the Russian nation,

Not the communes.

scyth

Re: Urban Farming
 

The garden plots still do feed many people. Russians have a sustenance gardening tradition which is unbroken.

They distinguish between gardening for your own food, and farming for profit.

Here's what they generally grow (on about one acre or less)

-Potatoes (enough for a family of 4)
-Cabbage
-Beets
-Carrots
-Onion
-Garlic
-Cukes
-Tomatoes
-Peppers
-Squash (a big zuccini thing they call kabbachok)
-Horseradish
-various herbs for tea
-both black and red currants
-gooseberries
-sea buckthorn
-raspberries
-two kinds of strawberries (they distinguish bigger ones and smaller ones)
-Apples
-pears
-cherries
-plums



Whatever keeps, like root crops, are kept in the basement or in a shed. The rest of the stuff is either pickled, canned, or mashed with sugar and refrigerated. Berries become wine.

Old people who live at the garden full time and raise animals usually have goats and chickens, and sell cottage cheese and eggs.

They gather blueberries, mushrooms, cranberries, hazelnuts and nettle from the forest.

Old women sell the excess from their gardens to survive.

This diet is supplemented with pork products, store-bought buckwheat, rice, different types of pasta, butter, and whatever fried thing you can think of with flour.

Fertilizer is manure spread by hand in early spring. People who don't own a roto-tiller borrow one for a day. Any parasites are picked off by hand.

Their weekends from May til October are completely occupied from sunup to sundown. Two week summer holidays are spent at the garden.

People sometimes wear bathing suits (or underwear) and listen to the radio while working.

In the evening they drink a bit sometimes have a cookout with meat on skewers.

If their yeild isn't what they expected, then they have to buy stuff of the back of trucks from Uzbekistan. Uzbeks drive trucks filled with cabbage, potatoes, carrots, onions, watermelon etc. and find a place to park for a few days. They stay and sell right off the truck until the police run them off, or they run out of business. The Uzbeks sleep right in the truck.

If you have a truck, you can make money buying from farmers and selling in the cities. People with vans go to villages and buy pigs for slaughter and sell out of the back of the van. MANY people sell from tables or out of trucks and vans, getting excess from villages and re-selling in town. Remember this for SHTF.

Re: Urban Farming
 

^^^^Thanks Russkie. I always enjoy your reflections from your corner of the world.

Re: Urban Farming
 

If we're arguing over job titles here - farming isn't actually a profession. It's a job. I won't bother correcting your spelling.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Well, at least nobody's putting words in your mouth.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Explore the country side gentalmen.

You have all lost touch and you know it.

I never did.

Re: Urban Farming
 

When i had seen the title of this thread last week I thought cool I can dig this one. Well to tell you the truth it Sucks. CANUCKFARMER you and your ego have ruined something good for people share information and ideas on urban farming/gardening due to your pride. So if you think growing plants for money is farming than i am a farmer too.
So in saying that CANUCKFARMER You Suck! for ruining a good thing.

Re: Urban Farming
 

OK - lets bring this thing back on track.

It isn't ruined.

A whole lotta people here grow stuff.

Some for personal consumption, some for sale.

Point is, to me, this here

Is an agricultural thread.

So what's stopping it, and us?

Nothing, that I can see.

scyth

Re: Urban Farming
 

What about a new thread about Urban Farming, and leave this one for people to say "take that cock out of your mouth, I can't understand a word you're saying" to Canuck.
Or as we say in Ireland, "Are you talking to me, or chewing a brick?"

Re: Urban Farming
 

Well CANUKFARMER I just read the post by Russkie about what the Russians have been forced to do in the last 20 years takeing their gardens to a "Higher Level" to survive, and you will at least have the satisfaction of haveing your detractors here make a simular effort if they aren't a part of the payed protected element. Perhaps after a few years of this they will have a different attitute. I at least know what my cousin's, FARMERS, have to go through to survive; and I have respect for your opinion and perspective. Besides I can't spell everything 100% correct either[spent a hellofa lot more time shoveling ditches and running cables than I have at a typewriter].

Re: Urban Farming
 

Thanks hoot.
Funny how people get so mad when you show them their own delusions.

Re: Urban Farming
 

And i promises not to steal anyone elses trade "title",even though i may dabble in it once in a while.

Which is what started this fight,but has been convinently ignored.

Re: Urban Farming
 

I"M the only 'real' farmer on this board........I dig my potatoes with a shovel, a half acre at a time.

People who own tractors don't know the first thing about real farming.

The best, most authentic farmers are the Amish. I bet most modern agro-business hustlers owning hundreds of chemical-soaked acres (and depending on government tariffs and subsidies from our tax dollars) wouldn't even know how to hitch a horse to a plough these days.

Makes me sick.....

People sitting on tractors all day long, soaking up the public's tax money, insulated from honest competition, shoving those chemicals down our throats in cahoots with the system.....




.

Old fat perverts chewing tobaccoo, chasing around sheep with hip waders on...

stump-training their cows....

loading rocksalt into their 12 guage against people sleeping in their hayloft who might touch their daughters...

smearing their dirty hands on their overalls before they adjust their giveaway John Deere baseball cap....

Farmers.....

outstanding in their field.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Russian farmers,i know them well.

They dig a half an acre of potatoes to make cheap booze out of and let the women and children finish off the harvest.

Then they get hammered for the rest of the year and stand around wondering what went wrong.

We actually keep a close eye on them because they are on a1 agricultural class land and i would hate to compete with them on the world market.

Thankfully they are dismal failures at farming.

Go ahead and look this up-your tesla quote wants you to see the truth.
Can you handle it?

Re: Urban Farming
 

Just got back to cyberspace from a trip to Ibaraki prefecture, north of Tokyo. Ibaraki has a lot of good farmland (i.e. flat). Mito city is the prefectural capital. Across the street from the new high-rise prefectural administrative complex is a thriving sweet potato field, right next to a home depot type place and a starbucks. A small apartment complex I saw had sweet potatoes instead of a lawn. Grass lawns are few and far between. Most homes in the city have at least a few tomatoes, greens, herbs and kabocha squash. Rice fields and orchards of chestnut or plum are interspersed through residential areas. As you head towards the outskirts of the city, the rice fields keep multiplying, terraced up the valleys until the slopes get too steep for anything but orchards.

My impression is that here in Japan space matters. Land is expensive, so even small plots are put to work. If space were at such a premium in the U.S., urban farming would be a lot more popular.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Wow, a thread with good potential ruined.

CF, why you arguing over the details?

Sure you feed 10,000 but you admit that one day you will not be able to anymore.

We are trying to prepare for that day as well as produce healthier food for ourselves and maybe have a little left over to sell, trade are barter with.

Does that make us idiots? Self preservation is dumb now?

We don't all have the resources or desire to have large farming operations but even if we only produce for ourselves we are taking some of the strain of the commercial agricultural system. Leaving the food you produce for someone else. Surely there is some value in that.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Thought this may be useful to add here. Posted in a another thread yesterday by fasTTcar. Good urban farming practices could be much more energy neutral than industrial farming.

http://financialsense.com/fsu/editor...p_image003.gif

Re: Urban Farming
 

Half an acre would never yeild enough to keep a man hammered for a year. Wether he be Russian or Irish. So f#ck off, do a little work on your spelling and your Poitin recipes, then maybe come back with something useful to the forum?

Re: Urban Farming
 

Oh, you might want to look into "Popcorn Sutton", who died not long ago - the king of "Likker".

Re: Urban Farming
 

Wow,a thread with good potential ruined.

One of the only mainstream commercial farmers... oh forget it.

More info in my little finger...oh forget it.

When confronted by someone who knows something you think you know but dont,but really want to,but cant debate,you call them names and hit the ignore button..oh forget it.


TAKE A GOOD LOOK FOLKS AT THE GURUS WHO ARE GUIDING YOU>
SURE THEY ARE GOOD SPELLERS_AKA SPELL CHECK
BUT HAVE ANY EVER SAID THE WORD POTASSIUM?

Re: Urban Farming
 

I'm still waiting for your reasoned, cogent argument against permaculture.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Between the wheels -

You most likely will never receive an answer.........

As for CF's howl about Potassium,

It is apparent that he is unaware of Nitrogen

And Phosphorus.

Anyway, I grow stuff my neighbors don't,

And my neighbors grow stuff that I don't.

So there is this interesting crosstrade

Of gifted veggies up and down the road,

And a lot of information exchanged.


scyth

Re: Urban Farming
 

And it sounds like you are building a community.

A real, face-to-face human community.

Good for you.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Dang -

What a concept.

Neighbors.

Of course.


scyth

Re: Urban Farming
 

nitrogen?
70 pounds an acre.actual.
phos?
15-25

permaculture?
system losses more than gained=collapsed=why were all here

Re: Urban Farming
 

You talk of "systems," but I have yet to hear you talk of "neighbors."

Outside of your utilitarian contribution of feeding masses - do you have any community, CF?

Re: Urban Farming
 

the neibour system is dead.

no i didnt do it.

Re: Urban Farming
 

If all of you that have been posting to c farmer haven't
figured it out he is a sock puppet or a troll.

The best way to deal with him/her is to ignore whatever this
person posts.

All this person is going to do is to bait everyone that posts and
try to derail the thread.

And has done a bang up job of doing it.

This thread started good and could have been a nice learning
tool.
IMHO the best thing to do is to pay no attention to this person.

Some one was talking about spraying crops to get rid of
pesky critters that was destroying their crops.


What we need to do is to use some of this spray to clean up this thread and forum..:yes:

Re: Urban Farming
 

Hmm. I wonder why you don't have any friendly neighbours - most all of the farmers I know are friends, loan out or help fix stuff when needed etc. Maybe it's because you are an asshole, who nobody likes?

Re: Urban Farming
 

I put Canu on ignore, but people keep responding to it instead of getting on with the original topic.

I began gardening with a 6x6 area I dug and prepared in the cool of winter for spring planting. I used a version of square foot gardening on it and was amazed how much food I got. I enlarged year by year.

My big 3 years we kept laying hens plus gardened 3 8x16 beds and that provided more than half our food with the eggs for protein. The most delicious half, I will add.

Now the last hen is gone from that flock but I have the henhouse, 35x55 of ground the hens cleared of bugs and weeds and fertilized, and seed. So I'm ready to start up again when we need to.

I suggest new gardeners start small. You don't wear yourself out and you learn what works and what doesn't in your microclimate. For example... here tomatoes need a little shade to do best the sun is so strong. Not much, but a little. Most places they need all the sun they can get.

I made big tomato cages out of hog wire and used them also for cukes, sugar snaps, green beans, anything on a vine that did not get too heavy.

To save space I grew bush squash and no crops like pumpkins or watermelon. Grapes I grew on fences.

My old beds were visible from the street. In SHTF circumstances that is no good and the main garden will be the cross fenced hen yard, and only some grain unlikely to be recognized by urbanites like millet will be in the visible from the street garden. I'm trying to pick a grain suitable for this climate for us and the hens to share.

I've got peaches, but need more, and plentiful figs.

If we needed to live from our garden I would plant sweet potatoes. They keep well and produce a lot of food.

In this climate you can grow something year round. Kale can handle the coldest it gets, and most winters so can other veggies like swiss chard.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Just had some of the best belly:elefant: laughs I've had all weeeek reading the slaps going back and forth here, thanks guys keep it up!

Re: Urban Farming
 

I consider myself an 'intensive gardener'. While I joke and say I'm a farmer to friends sometimes, to me a farmer uses machinery. Or at least horse drawn plows. They also typically lean more towards monoculture instead of variety in small spaces.

As it stands now I have or work 3 gardens with over 2 acres of total space. I also have guerrilla plantings scattered about.

I see permaculture has been brought up. I would love to see an entire thread about it..actually why not, instead of continuing arguing over semantics perhaps something constructive. As a matter of fact http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=401587

Re: Urban Farming
 

Cool, what are you growing guerrilla??

Re: Urban Farming
 

The NY Times had an interesting article / op-ed piece today about "vertical farms" in cities.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Site with good links: http://punkrockpermaculture.com/
http://blog.valcent.net/
more on Despommier's efforts: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...865974,00.html

Re: Urban Farming
 

Probably went to hard on the russian stereotype.
There is no doubt they are better equiped to deal with "situations",where our society would just sink.

i.e-neighbourly love

If your starving but getting by with your preps and "farming" skills-you are alone.Count on your fingers right now how many people are doing the same on your block,and ask yourself how far you would go if you were starving or better your child.

Re: Urban Farming
 

YES we do drink some of our harvest, but at least we don't have raging roids from riding our tractors all day.

American and Canadian farms probably don't even have shovels or hoes on the premises! First you had negroes, then tractors. In Russia, we are both negro AND tractor!

And why do we Russians need your fancy technology and chemicals?

We have millions of old women with nothing better to do, they can go out there all day long. Most of them are bent over permanently, and WE LIKE IT THAT WAY!

Aggrrrhhhhh!!!!!


The only government hand-outs we get here are a free slap in the face.

Yes, you should be worried, because Russian black earth is the most fertile in the world, and as soon as global warming lets us grow corn, you're out of business.

If our old men stand in one place for too long, their walking sticks start to sprout leaves.

Now go smear your Preparation-H on your over-fed American popa (American, Canadian, its all the same to us), have someone help you get up onto your tractor, pop open a can of Dr. Pepper, listen to Celine Dion on your built in CD player, and pretend you're farming.










p.s. you guys know I'm just having some fun, right? A lot of bannings lately, just want to make sure we all have the same sense of humor! Yikes!

Re: Urban Farming
 

right now just, walking onions, garlic and some native berry bushes I've planted

Re: Urban Farming
 

In NY, beekeepers are hard at work, despite stupid city prohibitions against keeping bees.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...interfere.html

Re: Urban Farming
 

I would tend to suspect that "urban farming" is really only practical in peacetime. In any drastic food-shortage situation, people will quickly switch to "urban looting"....


-end-

Re: Urban Farming
 

History shows otherwise. Both WWI and WWI were associated with two large urban farming booms.

Re: Urban Farming
 

When the country went to rationing of food

Home gardens popped up every where to help
fill in the gaps..

Re: Urban Farming
 

I would think that the first step in trying to do any "urban farming" of any significant amount would be to get a good fence topped with barb-wire installed, and a couple big nasty dogs....

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/new...1?OpenDocument

Re: Urban Farming
 

Where I am at the minute, people with no garden can take out a lease on an "allotment" - basically a small field to grow their own. Most people put up a little shed with a gas cooker for coffee, etc, some more luxurious than others. They tend to be a very tight-knit community, and if any thieving is noticed, someone stays in their shed overnight until they find the thief, then they get "dealt with" in the kindest way, using fists and boots.
Actually a man I know, probably one of the highest-paid in the country and with a huge ornamental garden at home, was given an allotment by his kids before he retires. Wife never sees him any more, he loves it! Grows masses of all the veg that the family eat. And he is NOT the sort of person you would think would enjoy "gardening". It's also improved their marriage hugely - he spends so much time up there and comes back so happy with boxes of fruit and veg, whereas before he used to wander round the house with nothing to do but bitch at his wife and be unhappy. Some things, money cannot buy. Though I do suspect his shed has an extensive drinks cabinet...:wink:

Re: Urban Farming
 

My wife is the gardener in the family. I do the 'grunt work' and she does the planning and planting.

I also gladly help eat the results, which can be stunning.

This hasn't been a good year, we seem to have some sort of disease on the tomatoes. The plants seem to be sickly, although the tomatoes still taste fine.

Our zucchinis are going great guns, as are the winter squash. Green beans were very good, as were the green peppers.

Our main focus is the tomatoes, but this is a down year for us and for others we know.

No farmers here, just gardeners.

Re: Urban Farming
 

So It looks like our half acre plot is pumping out the goods again... though this year we planted the spaghetti squash a little close to the Zucchini and got a few hybrids from the zealous bees. Going to cook a few Squashinis and see how they tatse :p

anyone have any interesting hybrid results this year?

Re: Urban Farming
 

This group is planting urban food forests in poorer neighborhoods:

http://plantingjustice.org/programs/...n-food-forests

Re: Urban Farming
 

SnowBear Farm – Ten Thousand Hours and Counting

Re: Urban Farming
 

already doing it. it takes a lot of work to replace my entire food supply. so far i only grow about 10% of the food i eat (brussel sprout leaves, tomatoes, potatoes).

i'd like to raise some kind of fish. it really looks like i might want to consider goldfish or something that does well in a small tank, i don't have room for a catfish farm.

i think this is a very good skill to learn. i expect our weekly garbage pickup to become less regular in the years to come. so it would be good to learn to compost food scraps etc.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Composting is the easiest thing in the world. Take all your vegetable scraps and throw them in a heap. Add lawn clippings and leaves. If it gets mucky and stinky, you need to add more dried brown stuff (leaves). If critters are an issue, you might want to build a composting bin with a lid. Everything beyond that is pretty much optional bells and whistles.

Even if you don't know how to compost, I assure you worms, bacteria and fungi are very competent.

Re: Urban Farming
 

Ahaha! Best quote of the thread! :23_28_100s:

Re: Urban Farming
 

Do some checking on talapia. They can live in really poor water and small confined spaces.

They have a texture almost like catfish, with more of a fishy taste. Some poeple love em, some hate em, i am ok with them if cooked correctly, but it isn't salmon.

(certainly better than goldfish carp)

Re: Urban Farming
 

:beer: Lets do some fractional farming. Or better yet Fiat farming!

Re: Urban Farming
 

I encourage my neighbors to grow lots of food in their yards and then I just take what I need.
Is that so wrong?

Re: Urban Farming
 

Hey, Wait a second !! That attitude sounds soooooo
familiar to me !! Ohmagosh !
Is it really you ??
I have missed your sarcasm !!!!
You shoulda dropped me a line to tell me you were here !
I wouldn't have bitten your head off.
I was lookin' for you because I hadn't seen you
in a while. Am I right or way off ??
Yipppeeeeee !!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Urban Farming
 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddr...e-know-it.htmlCan I hope our governments will spend some stimulus money (while it has value) on urban farming? No answer needed, I've been waiting years for such a sign. I expect many could find a way to screw it to failure even with true intensions.

Re: Urban Farming
 

I drive by a many a vacant city lots and I say ... Good place for an urban garden. Would be good way to get the welfare people out of the house and meeting others in the hood.